The tearful response to Megan Agnew's "Ballerina Farm" profile is a textbook example of our impulse to infantilize and, therefore, excuse the actions of dangerously right-wing women.
I've been reading Toni Morrison's "The Source of Self-Regard" lately and so far, I've read two essays which definitely echo your points/sentiments: "Women, Race, and Memory" and "Cinderella's Stepsisters." In both essays, Morrison is unpacking (and admonishing) the way women will willingly dominate and subjugate other women in an attempt to "be male-like" and/or climb their way up in the patriarchy; they're both great reads.
Yes, great read for women and how right she was! We need to create our own agenda and that begins at birth…. I was so fortunate that I was raised by strong independent women and loving respectful men and I owe them my happiness.
The idea that anyone could be considered “traditional” (conservative) when her living is made via the internet and adult beauty pageants in Vegas is cognitive dissonance at it’s finest.
the thing that’s concerning about the trad-wife trend is the type of christian fundamentalism that’s being pushed - and that people are falling for it - but to criticize that, you also have to criticize the choices these women are making. sure, it’s possible they’re abused behind the scenes, or have chosen their lives bc of what they were taught, it’s hard to tell that from the outside. but i do know that i was raised in the kinds of churches that push women towards marriage and teach them that their only purpose is to be a mother, and none of those women would choose/be able to have the kind of platform these women have. that’s part of what frustrates me about the conversation around trad-wives - none of these women are what they claim to be.
on another note, this reminds me of the conversation around taylor swift. she’s a billionaire, but somehow is made out to be a victim at every possible opportunity.
I was having this conversation with my son the other day. I have no empathy left for women so much more powerful than I who continue to make these very conscious choices to participate in oppression.
This piece adds so much to this topic. Well done. The ya-ya sisterhood line is spot on. We need to come to terms with the fallacy of that perspective. Shoot, we know antebellum wives would standby and watch their husbands beat the enslaved women they fathered children with and sell off the children - no sense of sisterhood whatsoever then but we still pine for such a state of being.
Yes! And more than just stand by! White women were active participants in Slave-Holding and the abuse of enslaved people, including enslaved children 'serving' in the house.
HEAVY ON THIS ! I fall for, even yearn for, the ya-ya sisterhood. It’s important to remember that - just because they are women - they are not like me and they will make different choices even with the same information
Excellent points. I didn't know who this woman was until people began chattering about the article, but when I read it, all I could think was that it sounded like huge grift...which is what all these 'trad' people are doing.
I also had the uncharitable thought that she might see the error of her ways when he starts stepping out on her with her young Mormon replacement, but then she'll just position herself as the victim. I'm sure she signed a prenup, because these ww are always smarter than they present themselves. And don't get me started on Usha Vance.
This is such a thoughtful piece. I totally agree that the "we need to save them!" mentality deprives these women of agency. They are conscious adults making questionable decisions. We can reserve our sympathies and energy for the many women who are actually being coerced or abused, living in poverty, etc.
This is so well done and needed. I am tried of us infantilizing adult ass women who marry into rich, powerful families. They know their choices, beside the religion part, they aren't brain washed. And they are perfectly free to wear their disgust and disappointment with those choices on their faces and at every public appearance. They aren't being help captive.
I don’t think you can just ignore the religion aspect and then claim she isn’t brainwashed. It doesn’t do good to ignore the effects of indoctrination.
I didn't say ignore. I am saying they are adults. I went to Catholic school and converted to Mormonism, and yet, thanks to resources available to nearly everyone, I lifted the veil and I'm not in a cult.
You said she isn’t brainwashed *besides* religion which means you’re not taking it into account. Her experience is not yours, she didn’t even have any formal education up until Juilliard. It’s not so easy to get to adulthood and realize you were raised in a cult and undo all that indoctrination, like you’re saying, that’s all.
I really like this article and the points you make. As my grandmother once told me, "You always have a choice and your values are defined by the choices you make". I'm definitely worried by the surge in Christian fundamentalist rhetoric we are seeing now, especially in the US but also in Europe. They are gaining a worrying amount of traction and have found how to use social media to their advantage, e.g., tradwife influencers. However, I think that there is another key aspect to consider. Deep down, many left-thinking women (members of the "Ya-Ya Sisterhood", as you say) are drawn to this kind of "homestead" lifestyle (whether it's real or not) because the mother/girl boss corporate dream we were sold hasn't turned out the way we thought it would. It's easier for wealthy corporates to sell an idealized housewife dream than to contribute to a fairer society - one that truly supports women and mothers. They wouldn't make the same kind of profit! I wrote about this in one of my previous articles: https://femmefactale.substack.com/p/i-want-to-hate-tradwives-but-i-dont
I agree with your points overall, but your "imagining" of Hannah's home birth as some torture fest akin to something from a previous century is outdated. Birthing at home is a legitimate reproductive choice—assuming it was some sort of awful travail infantilizes her, too. Happy to provide some reading and imagery about out of hospital birth, if that's something you're interested in. Thanks for your work!
The ex-Mormon YouTubers Jordan and McKay just put out a great video that analyzes what the Neelemans said in their interview through a culturally Mormon lens, helping explain the origins of their views.
Great piece, I especially appreciate how you refuse to look at Hannah as purely a victim.
Here’s a good quote from the video: “Despite him being who he is, we want people to understand that he did not just become this way. There are a lot of things regarding Mormonism that informed his behavior, his beliefs, and…how he sees the world.”
“That ultimately is what we think is the real villain behind these things.”
i recently read the ballerina farm article and i’m so glad you wrote about it!! you took all of my thoughts and outlined them so concisely and i agree completely with all of your points!! one of my favorite reads as always!!!
I can hold as true that Hannah is both a victim and victimizing others. She's a victim of a patriarchal society, and deeply problematic religion, that pushes women toward certain choices over others. (I find "choice feminism" loathsome and toothless for this reason: it always focuses exclusively on individual choices while never examining the systemic forces at play that make certain choices more available and appealing than others.) Consciously or not, she is then perpetuating that system through her content glamorizing those lifestyle choices. It's uncomfortable, but that's duality: I can be angry at her and her ilk for their regressive, anti-feminist propaganda, while also recognizing that in a just world, these same women might have made very different choices. That is to say, my empathy stretches, but only so far.
"Deeply problematic religion"?? You do realize it's a global Christian faith, right? And that people from all kinds of cultures around the world practice it. I think what you're describing is problematic religious Utah culture. That is a very different thing as I've personally experienced. A lot of things about Ballerina Farm concern me and elements of the trad wife trend are also concerning, but it's also a push back against other more "liberated" women who demean homemaking as a legitimate desire for modern women.
I was referring to Mormonism when I said "deeply problematic religion," not Christianity as a whole. (Though Christianity in the U.S. overall has its own issues with patriarchy. See: purity culture, "men as the head of the household," women being barred from faith leadership, etc.) The trad-wife trend is propaganda for the alt-right. I see very little demeaning coming from "liberated" women, and more *warnings* of the risks/dangers that trad-wifedom exposes women to. If that makes SAHMs feel some type of way, then I'm sorry, but that doesn't make it not the reality.
I've been reading Toni Morrison's "The Source of Self-Regard" lately and so far, I've read two essays which definitely echo your points/sentiments: "Women, Race, and Memory" and "Cinderella's Stepsisters." In both essays, Morrison is unpacking (and admonishing) the way women will willingly dominate and subjugate other women in an attempt to "be male-like" and/or climb their way up in the patriarchy; they're both great reads.
thank you so much for these recs! I adore Toni Morrison but have never really ventured outside of her fiction, I'm excited to check these out
Yes, great read for women and how right she was! We need to create our own agenda and that begins at birth…. I was so fortunate that I was raised by strong independent women and loving respectful men and I owe them my happiness.
The idea that anyone could be considered “traditional” (conservative) when her living is made via the internet and adult beauty pageants in Vegas is cognitive dissonance at it’s finest.
The real trad wives aren't on IG.
Ooooooooh… I’ve always said this.
the thing that’s concerning about the trad-wife trend is the type of christian fundamentalism that’s being pushed - and that people are falling for it - but to criticize that, you also have to criticize the choices these women are making. sure, it’s possible they’re abused behind the scenes, or have chosen their lives bc of what they were taught, it’s hard to tell that from the outside. but i do know that i was raised in the kinds of churches that push women towards marriage and teach them that their only purpose is to be a mother, and none of those women would choose/be able to have the kind of platform these women have. that’s part of what frustrates me about the conversation around trad-wives - none of these women are what they claim to be.
on another note, this reminds me of the conversation around taylor swift. she’s a billionaire, but somehow is made out to be a victim at every possible opportunity.
yes!!! beautifully put
Echoing this.
I was having this conversation with my son the other day. I have no empathy left for women so much more powerful than I who continue to make these very conscious choices to participate in oppression.
agreed.
This piece adds so much to this topic. Well done. The ya-ya sisterhood line is spot on. We need to come to terms with the fallacy of that perspective. Shoot, we know antebellum wives would standby and watch their husbands beat the enslaved women they fathered children with and sell off the children - no sense of sisterhood whatsoever then but we still pine for such a state of being.
Yes! And more than just stand by! White women were active participants in Slave-Holding and the abuse of enslaved people, including enslaved children 'serving' in the house.
HEAVY ON THIS ! I fall for, even yearn for, the ya-ya sisterhood. It’s important to remember that - just because they are women - they are not like me and they will make different choices even with the same information
Excellent points. I didn't know who this woman was until people began chattering about the article, but when I read it, all I could think was that it sounded like huge grift...which is what all these 'trad' people are doing.
I also had the uncharitable thought that she might see the error of her ways when he starts stepping out on her with her young Mormon replacement, but then she'll just position herself as the victim. I'm sure she signed a prenup, because these ww are always smarter than they present themselves. And don't get me started on Usha Vance.
This is such a thoughtful piece. I totally agree that the "we need to save them!" mentality deprives these women of agency. They are conscious adults making questionable decisions. We can reserve our sympathies and energy for the many women who are actually being coerced or abused, living in poverty, etc.
This is so well done and needed. I am tried of us infantilizing adult ass women who marry into rich, powerful families. They know their choices, beside the religion part, they aren't brain washed. And they are perfectly free to wear their disgust and disappointment with those choices on their faces and at every public appearance. They aren't being help captive.
I don’t think you can just ignore the religion aspect and then claim she isn’t brainwashed. It doesn’t do good to ignore the effects of indoctrination.
I didn't say ignore. I am saying they are adults. I went to Catholic school and converted to Mormonism, and yet, thanks to resources available to nearly everyone, I lifted the veil and I'm not in a cult.
You said she isn’t brainwashed *besides* religion which means you’re not taking it into account. Her experience is not yours, she didn’t even have any formal education up until Juilliard. It’s not so easy to get to adulthood and realize you were raised in a cult and undo all that indoctrination, like you’re saying, that’s all.
👍
I really like this article and the points you make. As my grandmother once told me, "You always have a choice and your values are defined by the choices you make". I'm definitely worried by the surge in Christian fundamentalist rhetoric we are seeing now, especially in the US but also in Europe. They are gaining a worrying amount of traction and have found how to use social media to their advantage, e.g., tradwife influencers. However, I think that there is another key aspect to consider. Deep down, many left-thinking women (members of the "Ya-Ya Sisterhood", as you say) are drawn to this kind of "homestead" lifestyle (whether it's real or not) because the mother/girl boss corporate dream we were sold hasn't turned out the way we thought it would. It's easier for wealthy corporates to sell an idealized housewife dream than to contribute to a fairer society - one that truly supports women and mothers. They wouldn't make the same kind of profit! I wrote about this in one of my previous articles: https://femmefactale.substack.com/p/i-want-to-hate-tradwives-but-i-dont
I agree with your points overall, but your "imagining" of Hannah's home birth as some torture fest akin to something from a previous century is outdated. Birthing at home is a legitimate reproductive choice—assuming it was some sort of awful travail infantilizes her, too. Happy to provide some reading and imagery about out of hospital birth, if that's something you're interested in. Thanks for your work!
this is actually a totally fair point and really politely communicated, thank you!!
The ex-Mormon YouTubers Jordan and McKay just put out a great video that analyzes what the Neelemans said in their interview through a culturally Mormon lens, helping explain the origins of their views.
Great piece, I especially appreciate how you refuse to look at Hannah as purely a victim.
oooo this sounds really interesting, thank you for the rec!!!
Here’s a good quote from the video: “Despite him being who he is, we want people to understand that he did not just become this way. There are a lot of things regarding Mormonism that informed his behavior, his beliefs, and…how he sees the world.”
“That ultimately is what we think is the real villain behind these things.”
this. this is the take.
So well done! I find it so hard to swallow the unsisterhood pill but it’s real :(
Oh thank you so much, Jo-Ann! I'm a longtime big fan of your work so this means a lot <3
❤️❤️❤️
i recently read the ballerina farm article and i’m so glad you wrote about it!! you took all of my thoughts and outlined them so concisely and i agree completely with all of your points!! one of my favorite reads as always!!!
thank you so much Sarah!! hugely flattering coming from you!! xx
🔥 so glad this came up on my feed
thank you sm for sharing! 🫶🏼
I can hold as true that Hannah is both a victim and victimizing others. She's a victim of a patriarchal society, and deeply problematic religion, that pushes women toward certain choices over others. (I find "choice feminism" loathsome and toothless for this reason: it always focuses exclusively on individual choices while never examining the systemic forces at play that make certain choices more available and appealing than others.) Consciously or not, she is then perpetuating that system through her content glamorizing those lifestyle choices. It's uncomfortable, but that's duality: I can be angry at her and her ilk for their regressive, anti-feminist propaganda, while also recognizing that in a just world, these same women might have made very different choices. That is to say, my empathy stretches, but only so far.
"Deeply problematic religion"?? You do realize it's a global Christian faith, right? And that people from all kinds of cultures around the world practice it. I think what you're describing is problematic religious Utah culture. That is a very different thing as I've personally experienced. A lot of things about Ballerina Farm concern me and elements of the trad wife trend are also concerning, but it's also a push back against other more "liberated" women who demean homemaking as a legitimate desire for modern women.
I was referring to Mormonism when I said "deeply problematic religion," not Christianity as a whole. (Though Christianity in the U.S. overall has its own issues with patriarchy. See: purity culture, "men as the head of the household," women being barred from faith leadership, etc.) The trad-wife trend is propaganda for the alt-right. I see very little demeaning coming from "liberated" women, and more *warnings* of the risks/dangers that trad-wifedom exposes women to. If that makes SAHMs feel some type of way, then I'm sorry, but that doesn't make it not the reality.
I understand that's who you meant. Thus my comment.